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About

In this heartfelt final episode of the Resilient Pastor podcast before Christmas, hosts Rich, Sharon, and Glenn reflect on favorite Christmas movies, pastoral discouragement, and the power of Romans 8. They are joined by world-renowned New Testament scholar N.T. Wright, who discusses his latest book, Into the Heart of Romans. Wright unpacks Paul’s profound theology of vocation, suffering, the indwelling Spirit, and the vital importance of lament, offering deep encouragement for church leaders navigating pain, disappointment, and discouragement in ministry.

Through rich conversation on temple theology, sonship, and God’s co-suffering presence, this episode reveals how Romans 8 reframes pastoral hardship not as failure but as participation in the Messiah’s vocation — a timely and hope-filled message for every pastor and church leader.

Key Takeaways

• Faithfulness in ministry often includes suffering and discouragement — this is not a sign of failure but a central part of our vocational calling to co-suffer with Christ.
• Younger pastors (under 45) report significantly lower vocational satisfaction, highlighting the need for better formation around the realities of pastoral suffering.
• Romans 8 is not primarily about “how to get saved” but about our restored vocation as God’s temple people and royal priesthood in the world.
• The Spirit dwells in us as the true temple, making Christians “small working models of new creation” who participate in God’s mission through prayer, lament, and love.
• Romans 8:28 is best understood as God works all things together for good with those who love Him — an invitation to partnership, not passive comfort.
• Lament is an essential form of praise and a vital spiritual practice for pastors, especially in a groaning world filled with pain and division.
• Encouragement in ministry comes from allowing Scripture (especially in sermon prep) to first transform the pastor before it reaches the congregation.

Highlights

• “This is a depiction of the tensions of faith.” — Sharon on why The Santa Clause is surprisingly profound
• “The calling is to co-suffer with Jesus.” — Glenn on the counter-cultural nature of pastoral vocation
• “We were invited to give it all away for Jesus in an environment that was safe, fun, and entertaining… then we got into ministry and realized this is actually very hard.” — Sharon on the Passion Conference generation
• “Make sure you always have this passage within easy and prayerful mental reach.” — N.T. Wright to pastors on Romans 8:31–39
• “The church is now called to live, speak, think, pray, and act as small working models of new creation.” — N.T. Wright
• “At the heart of the world’s pain, the third person of the Trinity has no words… This is the calling of the church — to lament in the Spirit.” — N.T. Wright
• “Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.” — The anchoring promise that sustains pastors through discouragement

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