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About

In this special Independence Day episode of the Resilient Pastor podcast from Barna, hosts Glenn Packiam, Rich Villodas, and Sharon Miller sit down to explore the current state of discipleship in the local church. Joined by Daniel Im, lead pastor of Beulah Alliance Church and author of Discipleship Opportunity, the conversation examines how churches can move beyond outdated church-growth models to cultivate meaningful spiritual formation in a post-everything world. From practical pathways and spiritual disciplines to the power of rootedness in community, this episode delivers timely insights for pastors seeking to build a culture of discipleship that lasts.

Key Takeaways

• Discipleship must shift from a consumer-driven, program-heavy model to one focused on rootedness and shared life within a local church community.
• Effective discipleship happens across four spaces: public (Sunday gatherings), social, personal (small groups), and private (spiritual direction or close mentorship).
• Churches should design a clear discipleship pathway with three stages: First Steps (new believers or newcomers), Next Steps (deeper learning and deployment), and Ongoing Steps (lifelong practices).
• The Holy Spirit is already stirring hunger for God in surprising ways — pastors should focus on responding to this movement rather than trying to manufacture interest.
• Numerical growth is not the only measure of success; spiritual maturation and multiplication are equally vital markers of a healthy church.
• Pastors must resist being held hostage by consumer-minded attendees and instead cast a compelling vision for commitment and covenant community.

Highlights

• “A shrinking church is a sinning church” — a provocative quote from the church growth movement that no one would say today.
• “You can’t have the fruit of community without the root of commitment.”
• Rich Villodas’ framework of four spaces for formation (public, social, personal, and private) offers a powerful lens for holistic discipleship.
• Daniel Im challenges leaders: Are the most spiritually mature people in your church actually products of your discipleship process, or are they transplants?
• “We’re not a subway car. We’re not a mall. We’re not a stadium. We are the family of Jesus — rooted in Christ and rooted in one another.”
• Churches should function like shepherds leading sheep to good pasture, not hand-feeding healthy believers.

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