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About

In this insightful episode of the Barna Resilient Pastor Podcast, host Rich Lusk sits down with Barna CEO David Kinnaman, Glenn Packiam, and Sharon Miller to discuss the brand-new research study, The Relationships of Today’s Pastors. The conversation explores why pastors rate their relational health lower than the general population and practicing Christians, even though most describe their spouse as their best friend. From the challenges of pastoral loneliness and homogeneity to the power of diverse relationships and spiritual direction, this episode offers practical wisdom for building healthier support systems in ministry.

With engaging personal stories, humor, and vulnerable discussion about food, family, and leadership pressures, the team unpacks how pastors can cultivate safe, reciprocal relationships beyond their spouse while better connecting with the growing number of singles, childless adults, and diverse life situations in their congregations.

Key Takeaways

• Pastors rate their relational flourishing significantly lower (67) than U.S. adults (79) and practicing Christians (85), despite 76% saying their spouse is their best friend.
• Two things can be true at once: a strong marriage does not automatically equal broad relational health or safety outside the home.
• 90% of pastors are married men with children, creating a homogeneity gap that can limit their ability to relate to singles, the divorced, widows, and childless adults.
• Only about half of pastors currently use any form of external support such as mentors, counselors, therapists, or spiritual directors.
• Spiritual direction is highlighted as a powerful, non-stigmatized tool for soul care that helps pastors process the “thousand small cuts” of ministry.
• Churches must intentionally diversify voices in preaching, sermon prep, and testimony to reflect the changing demographics of their congregations.
• Reciprocal, safe relationships outside the church staff and power dynamics are essential for long-term pastoral resilience.

Highlights

• “Two things can be true at once. A person could have a great best-friend marriage and still rate themselves low on relational flourishing.” — David Kinnaman
• “More than half our church is single… pastors have to work intentionally to hang out with people from different demographics.” — Glenn Packiam
• “I realized there were unique pressures that even though my wife could listen, I needed additional support from others who understood my shoes.” — Rich Lusk
• “As people become more spiritually mature, they often rate themselves lower. Honesty itself can be a sign of growth.” — David Kinnaman
• “Spiritual direction is like having a soul friend who helps you pay attention to the small wounds before they become fatal.” — Glenn Packiam
• The power of lay testimonies, mini-interviews, and open-sharing moments in church services was repeatedly celebrated as both spiritually powerful and relationally connecting.

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